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| BDSM Backroom | © 1997-2005 BDSM Backroom |
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| PREFACE: Many submissives will talk about sub space, but you hear fewer Dom's talk
about Dom Space. Are these truly places where the Dom and the submissive go during play?
What triggers the trip into these corners of the mind? Join judy and friends as they try
to discover if this is reality or just a myth.
|
| Ash & maya > | okay - the stage is yours, judys |
| judys > | We are going to be discussing Dom/Sub space Most of us have heard of sub space...but how many of you know about Dom space?? And as a sub have any of you ever experienced sub space First of all....is there anyone here that has been into sub space?? |
| The Chef > | Could you explain those terms, judys....."space"? S |
| jen~**~Netol> | does dreaming about it count? |
| froggie > | not entirely sure I know what 'sub' space is...enlighten me please? |
| gwen~Kahn's > | ummm......a definition may be in order |
| Netolio > | <smiles at jen> |
| Vince > | Yeah, please define "space" |
| sun~Treowe's> | to me, subspace is a different place to each submissive. |
| judys > | i have had the distinct pleasure of being in sub space. |
| PIRATE > | I believe she means a plane outside of ones own being |
| judys > | That is true, sun. |
| sun~Treowe's> | its kind of like astral travel or to me, it is |
| judys > | i am not aware of where i am, how much time goes buy nor do i
feel any pain. The only thing that i have to focus on is my Master's voice which sometimes sounds far, far away!! |
| PIRATE > | You are in a form of a trance |
| judys > | There are problems that a Dom faces when his sub goes into sub
space like that. Yes, Pirate, that is what it is like |
| sun~Treowe's> | and...it is easy to get lost there if your Dominiant does not know what he is doing. |
| judys > | Absolutely, sun!!! |
| PIRATE > | I know judys I've been there |
| judys > | Okay....i mentioned as one of the aspects of my sub space the fact that i cannot feel pain. |
| jenna~~~~Sha> | Been there |
| Netolio > | judys... how often do you get to subspace? |
| Shavah~~~~je> | I think it is alot like when you daydream....but really deep... |
| PIRATE > | It is easy for a sub to be hurt because they are unaware of the pain until it is over |
| judys > | Can you see what would happen if your Dom/me was not hyper aware of what is going on. |
| Kahn~@gwen > | yes judys |
| judys > | i do not go into subspace every time....maybe 1 or 2 times out
of 10 Depends on the scene. |
| sun~Treowe's> | <nodding> |
| The Chef > | I have never been there...nor have I ever seen it in a sub.....S...new to me... |
| PIRATE > | And the Dom would see know signs of the pain they are inflicting |
| judys > | The rest of the time i am aware of what is going on. |
| froggie > | but what of the Dom space you made refernce to? |
| silvia > | What do u mean referring to subspace? |
| froggie > | is there a danger for the sub in that if they are deeply into this sub space? |
| judys > | Ahhhh, my favorite saying from several doms i know is, "Tell me again, what is it that i am going to get out of this?" |
| jen~**~Netol> | before going further, i think it should be said that just because one has not been there before, doesn't mean that it takes from the scene itself...not all allow themselves to go that far, but with the right Master, they will...in time |
| sun~Treowe's> | the last time Master and i were together, i had a very odd
experience with it that i've never experienced before...it took him about 15 minutes to
bring me out of it. exactly, jen |
| froggie > | oh?? sun |
| WillowKnight> | thats is a form of space sun |
| judys > | Yes...maybe we should finish sub space before moving on to Dom space |
| Ash & maya > | yes judys |
| judys > | Do any of you do cyber D/s?? |
| WillowKnight> | nope |
| silvia > | Again... I can't understand what u mean for sub space... |
| sun~Treowe's> | ahhh...i agree WK Sir..but...there were other people in my space |
| The Chef > | <------- *Very* rarely....judys... |
| judys > | silvia, it is a place the mind goes during a D/s scenario. |
| The Chef > | Not the same.... |
| silvia > | U mean in RT or in VT? |
| judys > | And one thing that we have discussed earlier is that every sub's space is different. |
| Gryphon > | part of it is an endorphin and adrenaline rush ... IOW, it's chemically induced |
| Netolio > | silvia... subspace is a trancelike state that some subs experience sometimes. |
| Ash & maya > | we should give judys a chance to make a few statements that make some terms clear before jumping into the topic with new questions or aspects |
| sun~Treowe's> | i have experienced on here, though not as great as in real time |
| judys > | Sub space is the mental trance like state that a person goes into during a heavy D/s scenario. |
| Gryphon > | and part of it is purely psychological and comes from the sub being with their Dom |
| Shavah~~~~je> | something everyone should be aware of is, while it is possible to feel no painl, that in and of itself does NOT constitute "subspace"... |
| jenna~~~~Sha> | guess not |
| jen~**~Netol> | (nodding in agreement with Shavah) |
| ~pierced&pai> | peeks in....does not always have to be just a D/s experience either |
| WillowKnight> | that is true also p&p |
| judys > | You are right, pierced. It can happen in a top/bottom session, S&M...all of it. |
| PIRATE > | It is a feeling of being on the outside looking in |
| ~pierced&pai> | such as when im getting tattooed.....i slip into subspace alot |
| judys > | I have never heard of it outside of the pain play aspects. |
| froggie > | for me, is not so much a trance as a focus...still aware of the rest of the world, but it's importance fades with the need of the 'scene' |
| Shavah~~~~je> | anyone here ever been hypnotized? |
| MstrJeffrey > | So thn, being into space is where you are concentrating on the experience so much that you are in a 'meditative state'? |
| judys > | Some people say that it can be caused by the endorphin rush that goes through your body. |
| The Chef > | No. |
| sun~Treowe's> | i have |
| swann~Master> | i have experienced it judys |
| WillowKnight> | i have Shavah |
| swann~Master> | i have Shavah Sir several times |
| froggie > | no |
| Vince > | sorta like looking down at your body from somewhere above? |
| jen~**~Netol> | i have, Shavah, Sir |
| judys > | So sun & swann, you have done sub space without pain play?? |
| jenna~~~~Sha> | endorphins can be release by many different activities though |
| ~pierced&pai> | also everyone has a different definition of pain and pleasure......and sub space |
| PIRATE > | It depends on the person Vince |
| silvia > | They tried to hypnotize me... but no one ever got me into it... |
| Shavah~~~~je> | under hypnosis you can endure many things you can't while not under, pain, memories from your sub-conscious.....etc.. |
| swann~Master> | yes judys |
| Shavah~~~~je> | sub space is alot like a form of hypnosis, there is a rythem to it.... |
| judys > | Well, i know i have come close but never actually made it without the pain play aspect. |
| jen~**~Netol> | not all scening is done with pain, judys |
| The Chef > | <I really am having a problem relating to this concept....Not being a wise guy.....S> |
| judys > | Chef, would you like to ask a question?? |
| Shavah~~~~je> | *smiles at pet and rubs her shoulder* |
| gwen~Kahn's > | mmmmmmm |
| The Chef > | judys: I have never experienced what you're describing....S |
| froggie > | Chef...are you familiar with the concept of 'flow'? is much like that |
| judys > | I would be happy to field some questions from those of you that do not understand it!! |
| silvia > | <Listening carefully... as I've not experience, yet, I'm learning a lot tonight...> |
| judys > | Chef, are you Dom/me or sub? |
| Shavah~~~~je> | Chef, once you see it first hand you'll understand....sorta tuff till that happens.. |
| The Chef > | I have always found play to be very conscious and very
intense.... Both are very aware of what is going on |
| PIRATE > | Chef have you ever known someone who can reach deep meditaive Trance |
| The Chef > | Second by second, in fact....S |
| jen~**~Netol> | Chef, it's when that intensity goes beyond the line...you go
into a trance, Sir it can be great if your partner knows how to deal with it once you are there |
| gwen~Kahn's > | always feels the pain but can at times accept and embrace it differently.....where it becomes part of me...not sure if that relates to sub space or not..... |
| The Chef > | Thank you all, I've just never experienced it....but I am learning from you all.....S |
| sun~Treowe's> | You are totally unaward of anything, but the sound of your Master's voice...and sometimes you loose that |
| judys > | Chef, not every sub will experience sub space. i have know subs that have been submissive for years that say they have never been there. |
| The Chef > | judys: S |
| judys > | BUT there are times when i think they actually have been there, but just did not realize it!! |
| The Chef > | Hmmmmm.... |
| PIRATE > | or judys it scares them into forgetting it |
| jen~**~Netol> | a g/f of mine has convulsions when spacing |
| judys > | i can remember my first sub space....after it took my Master 15 minutes to get me to resurface, he informed me i had been there!! |
| sun~Treowe's> | oh my, jen |
| silvia > | Convulsions? Wow! |
| swann~Master> | or they didn't know what the experience was |
| Kahn~@gwen > | i think it is gwen |
| sun~Treowe's> | and its really cool to hear back from him when he tells you what you've said while under |
| PIRATE > | I agree swann |
| judys > | gwen, usually once my Master has spoken to me in sub space, i no longer feel the pain!! |
| katie > | i resisted going that deep until i knew where it was i was going. |
| judys > | My Master's voice is my only focal point when i am in sub space. |
| The Chef > | I have always found that I just *sense* where the limits
are..... And don't push a lady past that.... Perhaps that's it? |
| jen~**~Netol> | but that's what D/s is about Chef...pushing the ultimate |
| The Chef > | maybe just different terms? |
| judys > | That is a sign of a good Dom, Chef...if you can read your partner's reactions. |
| sun~Treowe's> | that's totally another subject, Chef Sir <grin> |
| Kahn~@gwen > | agree sun |
| WillowKnight> | i have had a sub at one time go so far into it the eyes in her head began to roll back |
| The Chef > | <----shutting up, now......S |
| judys > | Oh, my, Willow Knight!! |
| ~pierced&pai> | hmmmmmmmmm |
| judys > | Was that a scary experience?? |
| jen~**~Netol> | yes WK, that's what my g/f does when she's convulsing...her
Master freaked out when she spaced the first time and called the ambulance lol |
| judys > | Chef, please do not shut up!!! i welcome all questions!! |
| WillowKnight> | because i knew her so well i took it in stride and went with it |
| The Chef > | judys: I meant it good naturedly......S |
| silvia > | Chef Sir, I've understood that I've to shut up my mouth me too... this is all new for me! |
| Vince > | Uhmmm... do you see parallels with fire-walking or other religious trance-states, judys? |
| judys > | silvia, that is why we are having this conference. |
| PIRATE > | silvia the only way you will learn is ask of those who have been there |
| judys > | Vince, i have never thought about it...i would not do fire-walking so it never popped into my mind. |
| Ash & maya > | a good question Vince |
| swann~Master> | i didn't know what was happening the first few months when this happened....all i know was he had to tell me to get me warm afterwards......and it took a great deal of time to focus on anything else afterwards |
| sun~Treowe's> | it could be on the same basis |
| silvia > | judys, the matter is I've never experienced sub realtionship yet... so I have few hints on my own... |
| Kahn~@gwen > | must have been a long way off swann |
| judys > | It could be...i have just never thought about it, but possibly the religious fervor and the firewalking could be caused by endorphin rush, too?? |
| sun~Treowe's> | it seems that it takes a lot of energy from the submissive which is why i think they are so cold afterwards. |
| PIRATE > | I see it as another way of meditating... |
| gwen~Kahn's > | but firewalkers do not get blisters on their feet...subs still get welts...redness etc.... |
| The Chef > | Unless I'm misunderstanding, sub space occurs because natural limits have been passed.......? |
| katie > | Vince ... in many ways it is similar to a trance induced by a religious or metaphysical experience ... they FEEL very similar ... you just do different things with them. |
| judys > | True, gwen!!! |
| Vince > | I think it's the other way around, judys... the fervour causes the rush |
| PIRATE > | No not nesacarily Chef |
| judys > | Vince...that is what i meant, too, sorry!! |
| jenna~~~~Sha> | Runner get an endorphin rush....called runners high |
| The Chef > | Is sub space a *protective* reaction? |
| jen~**~Netol> | if anyone knows the human body, you all would know that it is the endorphins in you that create this 'space' that you fall into |
| gwen~Kahn's > | runners i can see... |
| Shavah~~~~je> | exactly pet...*S* |
| Vince > | **starting to understand** |
| Ash & maya > | maybe we should have a look at the Dom side now to gain an understanding of what this "space" else can be |
| judys > | Chef, it can be...but it can also be just a pleasurable space to go to. |
| swann~Master> | no Chef Sir...it is almost a spiritual experience |
| PIRATE > | no Chef it is a way of taking the feelings to another level |
| sun~Treowe's> | i could not see myself running while in subspace. |
| The Chef > | Ah. S |
| Shavah~~~~je> | LOL sun.. |
| jenna~~~~Sha> | <---got my books *LOL* |
| silvia > | I can understand the concept... but it remain so strange to me... |
| swann~Master> | *laughing * i can't walk or talk and have to be reminded to breath LOL |
| MstrJeffrey > | so jen, its a natural high in the extreme sense? |
| judys > | Yes, Ash!! |
| Kahn~@gwen > | could be tough at times sun |
| sun~Treowe's> | no, i'm serious...i cannot move when i'm there..i cannot think..anything |
| judys > | Now when it comes to Dom space...i think it is the exact opposite of sub space |
| jenna~~~~Sha> | endorphin rushes cause a numbing sensation |
| Shavah~~~~je> | who all in here has exercised REAL hard, ran more than 5 miles...etc? |
| sun~Treowe's> | that's called a heart attack, Shavah...not subspace |
| jenna~~~~Sha> | I have |
| sun~Treowe's> | <laughing> |
| The Chef > | But why experience it if you can't feel it? |
| jen~**~Netol> | yes Jeffrey, it is known that endorphins in our bodies are pushed to where they are having a rush themselves, therefore, we react by convulsing, not reacting, twitching, rolling eyes, etc. |
| PIRATE > | sun you have released yourself completely to the experience |
| judys > | LOL....Ash, we may have to do a separate CO on Dom/me space!! |
| Kahn~@gwen > | I think so to judys, I am very aware of what is going on all the time |
| MstrJeffrey > | hmm like an intense orgasm? |
| judys > | yes, Kahn, it has been described to me as hyper awareness!! |
| gwen~Kahn's > | glad to hear that |
| The Chef > | I agree with Kahn there..... |
| Shavah~~~~je> | No sun with me it was the military, but I did have times where it quit hurting all together and I was just floating... |
| jen~**~Netol> | a VERY intense orgasm, yes Jeffrey!! |
| sun~Treowe's> | a Dom HAS to be aware at all times. |
| judys > | Raising my hand to say that i have NEVER been THERE!! |
| WillowKnight> | Please continue with the Dom space thats why i decided to show up this evening |
| silvia > | So, how this subspace is related with orgasm? |
| Kahn~@gwen > | very , a completly different mindset and sensory perseption |
| froggie > | hmmmm..wondering if the Dom space is more like flow...where you are so aware, so concentrated, the world fades |
| Ash & maya > | seems like we have to, judys - but I find it interesting to compare them, cause I have heard very different statements on that |
| Netolio > | MJ... yeah, intense orgasm, extreme excitement, fear, etc. cause the endorphin release. |
| katie > | i do not understand dom space ... is there a space that you go that is similar? |
| judys > | On Dom space, Ash?? |
| Ash & maya > | ranging from endorphin rush to "power trip" |
| judys > | True!! |
| The Chef > | This may sound weird, but I make it a point to never even have a drink before play.....Consciousness is everything......S |
| Ash & maya > | yes judys - on DOm/me space |
| MstrJeffrey > | ok Net |
| jen~**~Netol> | not weird, Chef, SMART! |
| Kahn~@gwen > | it is froggie, i have to totally concentrate on what I am doing all the time |
| sun~Treowe's> | that's how i've always thought of Dom space...as a power trip |
| swann~Master> | absolutely!!! Chef Sir .... |
| judys > | katie, i don't think it is a trance...it is an awareness of everything going on around the sub |
| Shavah~~~~je> | Dom space= the 2 feet on my side of the bed afterwards.... |
| jen~**~Netol> | lol Shavah |
| Netolio > | LOL |
| PIRATE > | Chef what we are talking about is pushing Conciousness to a new level |
| sun~Treowe's> | lol |
| froggie > | <chuckles> |
| Kahn~@gwen > | not a power trip sun to me |
| judys > | Oh, please, if i can ask one thing of all of you....NEVER PLAY UNDER THE INFLUENCE. |
| The Chef > | Pirate: S |
| sun~Treowe's> | its the high of the power |
| Ash & maya > | I think Dom space is like subspace not a single experience but a wide range of experiences and states |
| sun~Treowe's> | but...i'm not a Dom <grin> |
| WillowKnight> | are we talking about Dom space now??? |
| katie > | judys ... *shaking head* ... i don't understand it ... cannot fathom it ... want to hear it desecribed. |
| swann~Master> | sun i think it is the high of the Giving of pleasure to the sub..... |
| sun~Treowe's> | hell wanaderer <big hugs> |
| judys > | Yes, WillowKnight!! Do you feel you have ever experienced something like Dom/me space?? |
| PIRATE > | greetings wanaderer |
| Kahn~@gwen > | yes swann and making sure they are ok all the time |
| sun~Treowe's> | exactly, swann...which giving that much pleasure is a power that he has |
| WillowKnight> | Yes Ash that is the way i view it |
| katie > | are there any switches here that can translate from one experience into the other? |
| Vince > | Uhmmm.. .but if you're only aware of the sub, then it IS a trance state in its own right, judys? |
| WillowKnight> | Yes i do judys |
| judys > | Yes, i guess it could be!! |
| wanaderer~Ch> | greetings Master Pirate |
| Kahn~@gwen > | don't think so Vince, I meditate and it is way different |
| PIRATE > | I reach a point with my sub where I can feel the crop as it touches her body.. I experience what she is experiencing |
| jen~**~Netol> | imho, i would be afraid if my Maste went into space...what would happen if the sub went there, too? she wouldn't have her Master to help her out of it |
| Ash & maya > | lets focus on two points - is DOm space dangerous for a sub and how does a Dom "control" the "trip" |
| judys > | You Dom/mes are going to have to help me on the feelings....i know my Dom always said he was more aware of me then anything else. |
| jen~**~Netol> | not smart at all |
| Vince > | I suppose it depends what you meditate about, Kahn? |
| froggie > | not sure Vince....if you are in a trance, you might not be aware of the oustisde...and that might affect the sub...is as if concerntration encompasses all that might affect the situation |
| katie > | ash ... i want to know what the experience feels like to you. |
| The Chef > | It seems to me that Dom space would be the most dangerous state of all...... |
| judys > | Has anyone ever experienced Dom Space to the point of endangering their sub?? |
| PIRATE > | It can be dangerous if the Dom does not realize what is happening |
| jen~**~Netol> | i agree with you, Chef, Sir |
| The Chef > | Loss of control..... Loss of sense and limitations.... |
| silvia > | Kind of power's delirium |
| Kahn~@gwen > | I am judys, much more aware of gwen's state of mind |
| WillowKnight> | yes judys that has happened to me one time |
| Ash & maya > | some Dom/mes told me the are more attentive - they open their senses when in Dom space |
| jen~**~Netol> | the Dom's spacing can come from the power trip they have, but to go under would be very scary |
| sun~Treowe's> | Net, Ash...how about you? |
| froggie > | Achilles is always super attuned to me |
| PIRATE > | no judys mine is just the oppisite |
| Kahn~@gwen > | I get in touch with my spirit Vince |
| Shavah~~~~je> | I think Chef has it.... |
| Netolio > | <--- has purposely avoided "loosing control". |
| The Chef > | <listening, intently> |
| wanaderer~Ch> | Doesn't it all come down to the fact that clear cut stops have to be put in and both/all need to know about and understand it and agree with it? |
| judys > | After you come out of Dom space, do you feel that you may have endangered your sub? |
| PIRATE > | The deeoer I go the more attuned I am to what is going on deeper even |
| Ash & maya > | my personal understanding of DOm/me space is a power trip - very intense and my senses change - I sense things I would usually not notice |
| Kahn~@gwen > | never happened to me judys |
| sun~Treowe's> | i've heard several say that Pirate |
| jen~**~Netol> | sorry PIRATE, i'm not buying it, Sir...you have the chance to harm your sub |
| Netolio > | I have felt "extreme pleasure" and closeness, but have never lost control. |
| jen~**~Netol> | either that, or you are not speaking of space but only of a higher power of control? |
| Shavah~~~~je> | this is not rocket science, every couple interact differently....therefore trust and patience are paramount, as is KNOWING your partner... |
| The Chef > | it is a Dom's responsibility to *always* maintain control and attentiveness.... |
| judys > | That is my feeling...i have played with a couple of Dom/mes and have never felt that i was endangered!! |
| sun~Treowe's> | how can you loose control if they are more aware of it? |
| Kahn~@gwen > | agree with Net |
| judys > | And that, Chef, i feel is part of Dom/me space!! |
| The Chef > | judys.....same idea, just different terminology I guess....S |
| judys > | Can you tell when you are heading into Dom/me space?? |
| PIRATE > | thats what I am trying to say sun |
| jen~**~Netol> | is it space or just a higher level of control, is my question? |
| Kahn~@gwen > | as the scene intesifies judys |
| The Chef > | judys: From the moment it begins, I am attentive, focused.... aware |
| swann~Master> | this may sound silly but perhaps Dom space is a higher awareness of the things being experienced by the partner than the Dom/me would ordinarily have??? |
| jenna~~~~Sha> | control |
| sun~Treowe's> | from how i understand it, it is a higher level of consentration, a higher level of control |
| Ash & maya > | so we can say Dom and sub space are very different in many ways - trance like state on the subs side and a rush/trip of control on the Dom/mes side |
| The Chef > | hearing and seeing signals |
| WillowKnight> | i have had one exp. where i thought that i must have been so far out of it i worried about my sub afterward |
| Kahn~@gwen > | yes swann |
| PIRATE > | Mine is space because if anything besides the scene happens I am lost to it jen.. |
| jen~**~Netol> | i think so, Ash, Sir |
| judys > | jen, the problem we as subs might have in understanding Dom/me space is that we are looking at it from a trance like feeling that we get, where the Dom/me is actually much more aware of his/her situation around him/her |
| jen~**~Netol> | then PIRATE, you chance harming your sub Sir |
| sun~Treowe's> | <nodding at judys> |
| Kahn~@gwen > | like tunnel vision |
| Netolio > | hmmmmmmm |
| judys > | Yes, Net? |
| jen~**~Netol> | trust me, i've seen a Dom go into space and he had no damn idea where he was or even who he was |
| The Chef > | to me, during play, the lady is completely objectified, in the most literal sense.... |
| sun~Treowe's> | How if he is that focused on her? |
| jen~**~Netol> | it's not safe! |
| wanaderer~Ch> | a trance like state? |
| The Chef > | all of my attention, conscious attention, is focused on her and her reactions.... |
| PIRATE > | That Dom lost control jen...... |
| Kahn~@gwen > | no wanderer |
| sun~Treowe's> | Then he was not focused on the situation...it does not sound like the same thing. |
| PIRATE > | That was not Dom space |
| jenna~~~~Sha> | I agree with jen |
| judys > | But jen, was that the result of Dom space or the result of a bad dom?? |
| jen~**~Netol> | he went into space, how is it different? no, not a bad Dom...it was his first time in over 11 years of D/s |
| gwen~Kahn's > | agreeing with jen...but if that Dom was not in Dom space..where was he? |
| Kahn~@gwen > | bad Dom would be my vote |
| sun~Treowe's> | he was not in control... |
| swann~Master> | jen one is almost a super control and the other was a loss of control |
| WillowKnight> | am i not here?? |
| wanaderer~Ch> | personally I feel a sense of power as a sub...to be able to make someone else take such a strong stand...and become so excited...it give me a high. |
| Vince > | I think the big word here is "chance".. and you chance harming people trance state or no trance state |
| The Chef > | <---agrees with Kahn |
| judys > | Willow, you are here!! |
| swann~Master> | sub space gwen LOL |
| Kahn~@gwen > | yes WK |
| judys > | The scroll rate is really fast!! |
| PIRATE > | Dom space is control he lost control that was not Dom space |
| The Chef > | <trying to read every word here.....S> |
| Shavah~~~~je> | once again it is very "individual" in nature, KNOW your partner well before attempting the journey into "space"... |
| gwen~Kahn's > | LOL swann |
| sun~Treowe's> | exactly Shavah |
| judys > | WillowKnight what would you like to say?? |
| The Chef > | :x |
| jen~**~Netol> | y'all are quick to judge...why say he was a bad Dom...why not
admit that it can happen? (confused look) |
| jenna~~~~Sha> | it can happen |
| jen~**~Netol> | thank you, jenna |
| The Chef > | quick to judge who? |
| gwen~Kahn's > | it can happen... |
| Vince > | because it's part of human nature to say "it can't happen to me", jen |
| The Chef > | <confused, I think> |
| sun~Treowe's> | i wouldn't say he was a bad Dom, but just lost control of a situation |
| jenna~~~~Sha> | you are welcome jen...I agree with you |
| judys > | jen, i am not about to say it can't happen, specially with his qualifications. I just have NEVER seen it!! |
| jen~**~Netol> | sun, isn't that what you do when you go into space? you lose control, don't you? |
| froggie > | there is always an element of risk, jen, and the Dom must remain aware of this, or such as you mentioned happens |
| The Chef > | Doms do not have the luxury of making mistakes or losing control of themselves during play..... |
| Kahn~@gwen > | I just think "Dom space" is a different mindset, not a place |
| The Chef > | Sorry if I offend, but that, to me, is an absolute..... |
| sun~Treowe's> | but a Dom is not suppose to go into subspace...he is suppose to maintain total control over any situation that he puts you in...it is his responsiblity |
| Shavah~~~~je> | yes Chef, the trust falters if they do... |
| The Chef > | <nodding to Shavah> |
| jen~**~Netol> | i agree, sun, but again, we don't always have control over the endorphins that are human nature in our bodies..that is what we are forgetting here |
| Ash & maya > | I agree, sun |
| jenna~~~~Sha> | I again agree with jen. |
| swann~Master> | i think Kahn has made an important point....we are thinking of "space" in both instances..... |
| sun~Treowe's> | then, when it began to happen, the scene should have been over immediately |
| Kahn~@gwen > | yes, "sub space to me is a place, like a corner of the mind |
| Vince > | but if you're in sub space when it begins to happen, sun? |
| gwen~Kahn's > | not always easy to end a scene once started sun...nor possible |
| jen~**~Netol> | perhaps, but not all can stop an orgasm, can they? he may not have been able to stop from feeling the intensity of the pleasure that he was experiencing |
| Ash & maya > | I know of some couples who agree on a safe word - for the Dom/me too - to care for the case the Dom/me tunnels into "sub space" |
| Netolio > | both endorphins (in the case of the sub) and adrenilin (Dom's case in some instances) have different effects on different people. |
| Kahn~@gwen > | always possible gwen |
| The Chef > | A Dom who is not in control of himself is not a Dom.... |
| sun~Treowe's> | to me...when i start going into it, it feels like when you get gas at the dentist...you don't just fall into it immediately...its a gradul process |
| gwen~Kahn's > | nope Kahn...disagree...not always possible to stop a scene.... |
| jenna~~~~Sha> | a human being can not always control the chemicals released in their bodies |
| swann~Master> | that is you sun....i get there and have not realized i have gone! |
| Ash & maya > | If a Dom/me senses the loss of control he can use it |
| judys > | If a Dom feels an adrenaline rush, like Net said, that i can see the hyper awareness |
| Kahn~@gwen > | for what purpose Ash? |
| sun~Treowe's> | right...which is why i said me...i know each are different. |
| Ash & maya > | the drift into the "space" is not something that happens with a sudden click - its a process - and some Dom/mes use it as a "hook" to reality |
| Shavah~~~~je> | have any of you subs ever spanked your kids(assuming you have them)? |
| jen~**~Netol> | yes, i have Shavah, Sir |
| sun~Treowe's> | every day, Shavah |
| katie > | sure shavah ... |
| judys > | i have, Shavah, but not much! |
| sun~Treowe's> | <lol> |
| jen~**~Netol> | lol sun |
| Shavah~~~~je> | jen, did you feel the adrenalin rush? |
| Kahn~@gwen > | are you speaking of Dom space Ash? |
| swann~Master> | they are bigger then i am now LOL |
| PIRATE > | In Dom space I am more attuned to my actions and my subs reactions |
| jen~**~Netol> | not at all Shavah...i felt very sad |
| katie > | *shaking head* i hate spanking my kids. |
| sun~Treowe's> | its not the same thing Shavah |
| Ash & maya > | no, I am speaking of a Dom/me who is sensing that he/she is tunneling into sub-space |
| sun~Treowe's> | its a totally different type of rush |
| Ash & maya > | or like some called it - is losing control |
| Shavah~~~~je> | Hmmm....I get a rush, feel very pumped(I DO NOT like it at all) |
| lacey===unta> | no not a pleasure rush, the intense shakes when they have pushed that far |
| Kahn~@gwen > | sorry gwen , just saw your response, it could stop depending on the reason to stop |
| The Chef > | I feel that Pirate and I agree, we are just using different terms perhaps...based on his last post..... |
| gwen~Kahn's > | never felt any kinda rush the 3 times i spanked my child.... |
| judys > | Is Dom/me space pleasurable?? |
| Ash & maya > | yes |
| jenna~~~~Sha> | I do not get a rush from it. Differnece for anger and spce space too |
| jen~**~Netol> | totally different |
| katie > | most excellent question, judys |
| jenna~~~~Sha> | THAT is anger |
| Kahn~@gwen > | yes judys, as i said I have heightened sesory perception sensory even |
| Ash & maya > | it is very pleasurable - the feeling of total power and control that grows and grows |
| PIRATE > | I agree with Kahn |
| jen~**~Netol> | and even that anger should cue us to stop the spanking...even in D/s |
| The Chef > | judys: Dom space would terrify me, if it means losing awareness of limitations.... |
| sun~Treowe's> | good point, jen |
| jenna~~~~Sha> | a scense or spanking shouldn't take place in anger |
| Shavah~~~~je> | I don't think that went where I intended it to... |
| gwen~Kahn's > | never in anger |
| jen~**~Netol> | whew, thought i would get jumped on with that one...lol |
| judys > | Can it be climactic for a Dom/me like sub space can be for a sub?? |
| Vince > | you're right jen, education shouldn't be considered a D/s thing |
| The Chef > | No. |
| Ash & maya > | yes judys |
| judys > | spanking should NEVER be done in anger....no matter what the reason!! |
| Kahn~@gwen > | absolutly judys |
| PIRATE > | but it doesn't Chef or at least with me I feel the pain and pleasure I inflict... to hurt ones sub more would be to hurt oneself |
| Shavah~~~~je> | there have been times I was not angery with the kids and realized to get them to stop reaching for the wall outlet I had to slap thier little hands...I still got worked up over it....and had to calm down... |
| jen~**~Netol> | so perhaps it's just more of a control thing that Dom's feel then it is a space thing |
| Kahn~@gwen > | not really jen |
| lacey===unta> | i think Shavah is referring to the feeling in the pit of your stomach when you realize that it is a last resort |
| Ash & maya > | jen: its like a rush - you want more and more - you feel the power rushing thru your venes - physically |
| lacey===unta> | i think for Doms it is more spiritual, for subs more sensual |
| Kahn~@gwen > | agree Ash |
| jen~**~Netol> | isn't that what i just said, Ash, Sir? |
| Netolio > | it's like being "pumped up". |
| The Chef > | Personally, I believe that any pain which is not pleasurable to a sub has left the bounds of BDSM........ |
| jenna~~~~Sha> | bottom line....everyone reacts differently. But a DOM should ALWAYS maintain control. If not...it is unsafe. Two people together who go into space can't be safe. |
| The Chef > | And now, you may spit on my shoes......L |
| jenna~~~~Sha> | *LOL*@ Chef |
| froggie > | agreed jenna |
| jen~**~Netol> | Chef, not all that are into D/s are into the pain side of it, Sir (smiling) |
| sun~Treowe's> | <laughing> |
| Treowe > | LOL@Chef |
| katie > | only if it brings your pleasure, Chef *laughing* |
| Shavah~~~~je> | sorta like two drunks in the front seat of the car going home from the bar.... |
| Ash & maya > | good point katie :-) |
| lacey===unta> | lol katie |
| judys > | Yes, jenna, a Dom must keep control. |
| Treowe > | *walking over and kissing sun* |
| froggie > | lol katie |
| jenna~~~~Sha> | Now if Dom Space means loosing control....that I would not care for |
| Treowe > | Hello katie..*S* hugs and kiss |
| sun~Treowe's> | <smiling and patting the seat next to me> |
| jen~**~Netol> | (nodding in agreement with jenna) |
| sun~Treowe's> | hello again, Master |
| The Chef > | <---agrees with jenna |
| jenna~~~~Sha> | Exacly Master! |
| Treowe > | *sits by sun* |
| katie > | *smiling gently at Treowe ... returning his hug and kiss* |
| lacey===unta> | again i think it is spritual v. sensual |
| judys > | Does anyone have any more questions regarding either Dom/me OR sub space?? |
| victoria > | they seem to be opposites...where sub space is a loss of awareness and dom space is a heightened awareness |
| Kahn~@gwen > | is both lacey |
| victoria > | is that right? |
| jenna~~~~Sha> | I can agree with that lacey...as long as he doesn't go floating off somewhere and hurt His sub |
| Treowe > | well what do most consider Dom space? |
| swann~Master> | *waving at Treowe* hello Sir |
| judys > | Treowe, have you ever experienced Dom/me space?? |
| Treowe > | Yep... |
| judys > | What is your description of it?? |
| Treowe > | Well, I am a bit odd.....and eccentric.... |
| jen~**~Netol> | (listening) |
| The Chef > | <listening> |
| Treowe > | it is a place, where you are no longer a person who wears society's veil..... |
| judys > | Not commenting on a Dom's description!!! |
| froggie > | nooo Treowe <smiling> |
| Treowe > | But more a natural dominant state... |
| Ash & maya > | LOL judsys - smart move |
| jenna~~~~Sha> | I don't understand |
| Shavah~~~~je> | back to the cave..!!! |
| jen~**~Netol> | none of us wear society's veil...in space or not if in D/s |
| judys > | jen, no truer words were ever written |
| Treowe > | That is the point of my practice in D/s, agreeing with jen |
| swann~Master> | agreeing with jen |
| Netolio > | imho... Domspace is the feeling of "pounding the chest like Tarzan", feeling "on the top of the world", feeling "the excitement of victory"... make sense? |
| Treowe > | About as simple as I can put it... |
| jen~**~Netol> | Treowe, what is it you feel when in 'space', Sir? |
| jenna~~~~Sha> | Treowe Sir is there another way you could explain that to make it clearer? |
| jen~**~Netol> | lol Master...yes Master, makes perfect sense |
| jenna~~~~Sha> | ok |
| Netolio > | <smiles at jen> |
| judys > | Net, that is the way i feel about my Dom when we are in a scene...He Tarzan, me jane!!! |
| Treowe > | Yes, but not in a normal sense..... |
| The Chef > | Net: Yes....but you are still perfectly aware of what's going on around you......S |
| Netolio > | Chef... yes, I am absolutely... but some men go "nuts" when the feel the "chest pounding" sensation! |
| Ash & maya > | I think we close the official discussion at this point - I want to thank everyone for coming and a special thank you to judys who led us through this evening |
| WillowKnight> | Thanks judys good job |
| froggie > | thank you judys ..has been quite a stimulating conf :) |
| Vince > | fair enough, judys... thank you |
| jen~**~Netol> | thanks judys (hugs) |
| judys > | It is an interesting subject. |
| jen~**~Netol> | <----still wanna know what Treowe feels when 'spacing' |
| The Chef > | Treowe: Men who lose control of themselves during play... |
| judys > | One of the first times i signed into PowWow and went to the old BDSM room....there was a war over safewords and how reliable they are....believe me as a sub in subspace they are not reliable AT ALL!! |
| Treowe > | well, ok.... |
| The Chef > | Treowe: S |
| Treowe > | best way, I can describe... |
| Kahn~@gwen > | good point judys |
| judys > | Ash, thank you for inviting me to do this CO!! |
| Treowe > | It is not some much sexual.... |
| Netolio > | Treowe... a dom that would hurt or push way beyond their subs limits while in this state. |
| jenna~~~~Sha> | depends on the Dom |
| MstrJeffrey > | Ummm that would be my fault.. |
| The Chef > | Net: Yes |
| Ash & maya > | it was my pleasure, judys - thanks again for sitting in the hot seat |
| Treowe > | but a heat spreading out....and flowing to and f rom the sub......a very natural and powerful feeling. |
| judys > | Teehee, i do this on a regular basis for any of you that are on CompuServe. |
| Netolio > | judys... thanks.. great job and topic. <smile> |
| Kahn~@gwen > | yes judys, great job :) |
| Treowe > | Agrees with Net.. |
| victoria > | bye A/all..thanks for the invite. Thanks judys, great topic |
| Treowe > | and btw, I have lost control of the sub before.. |
| The Chef > | Thank you, judys......S |
| Kahn~@gwen > | night victoria, take care |
| Treowe > | It ends there....... |
The last part of the logfile was edited to catch up a
few statements that seemed important enough to
me to include them. No statement has been changed or taken out of context in any way.
