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| BDSM Backroom | © 1997-2005 BDSM Backroom |
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| Ash & maya> | *climbing into the hotchair* First of all I want to welcome everyone and I am glad so many are here this afternoon I notice a lot of new faces in the Backroom - I hope you will enjoy this afternoon and participate in the following discussion. Usually
someone climbs into the "Hot Chair" (today I am the lucky one) :-) okay - I refuse to hold the introduction to a discussion if people are not able to listen for 5 minutes - if you want to play please join the front room - we try to behave here like adults. Today's topic is "Aspects of a 24/7 BDSM relationship" thanks for listening |
| jen~**~Net> | very well done, Sir (clapping) |
| Kulo> | your welcome Ash & maya |
| goddess~~n> | very nice speech Sir! |
| onixia~Wil> | some thought provoking insights Ash Sir...thank you |
| Ash & maya> | any opinions on that? |
| jen~**~Net> | i'm looking at a 24/7 relationship soon and it scares me because i do have children |
| Ash & maya> | how do you think you will handle it with your kids in the house, jen? |
| canaan> | i too wonder about the effects of this kind of relationship on a career, or children |
| goddess~~n> | i am a newbie to this lifestyle, and some of the aspects scare me to death |
| snow@}---R> | Rojo and i are about to go 24/7.... the way you described it, even tho we will be living together we will not be 24/7 |
| jen~**~Net> | i don't know, it'll all be new for me, Sir |
| Lochinvar> | Well spoken Ash...I do not think a 24/7 VT relationaship is possible |
| jen~**~Net> | i mean, you close your bedroom door like in any other relationship, but what's done during the day when the children are around |
| WillowKnig> | Personally i think that this type of relationship should be one that both agree upon going in and agree that if there.. |
| Kulo> | I always wonder about that jen the kids thing |
| onixia~Wil> | WillowKnight and I are pursuing living the 24/7 relationship....and it poses a lot of questions...about career...children...etc |
| jen~**~Net> | that's my biggest worry |
| Ash & maya> | okay - lets asume - its a 24/7 relationship and both agree on it - that's btw the topic - how can one handle this with their friends, neighbors and kids? |
| goddess~~n> | i don't have any children... career wise it scares me maybe discreetly? |
| Ash & maya> | do you think you can separate the job from your "family" - life? |
| jen~**~Net> | it almost pushes you back into the closet, doesn't it? |
| goddess~~n> | i would think so jen |
| fyre of Sh> | yes jen |
| ladyshel> | <---- as in a marriage one may agree NEVER to argue in front of kids.. and IT HAPPENS... so.. the possibility of a slip.. might happen... and BOTH should know a secret sign... to STOP as a RED light thing <G> |
| canaan> | i have no children...but with neighbors and friends who are vanilla, i would assume that certain types of behavior between sub and Dom would be understood...not necessarily played out in front of friends. |
| snow@}---R> | you have to separate your job from your lifestyle... |
| jen~**~Net> | well, if that's the case, than this lifestyle is no different than any other, right?' |
| WillowKnig> | i think it can be lived in a different way around children |
| Oracle{ħed> | I am under the weather today, cause I was at a party for longtime bdsm ppl. It was invite only and all there were very heavy. Most of them are married and or couples living together. The host and his wife for example live 24/7 bdsm and are now in their 13th year. |
| Kulo> | if 2 ppl both had creers it would be very diffucult |
| goddess~~n> | i think that the lifestyle might frighten children... watching mom and dad do 'strange things' to each other |
| snow@}---R> | that's right, jen... |
| Kulo> | that's right goddess |
| Ash & maya> | let me ask a question - if you have a vanilla relationship - do you pratice sex in front of your kids, neighbors? |
| ladyshel> | <---- WOULD NEVER INVOLOVE KIDS>>> |
| WillowKnig> | Good point Ash |
| fyre of Sh> | *nids* |
| Ash & maya> | don't misunderstand me shelbee |
| fyre of Sh> | nods too |
| WillowKnig> | it has to be somthing that is lived in different extremes at time |
| jen~**~Net> | nobody said to involve the kids, shelbee |
| Oracle{ħed> | They most of them are all very comfortable with it and themselves. But yes some of those who at least have kids complain of being unable to carry it through 24/7 cause of kids. But privately they take great love in the way they live. |
| WillowKnig> | but always is there |
| Ash & maya> | I only wanted to point out that one can life a 24/7 BDSM relationship without doing it in public |
| goddess~~n> | would never practice sex in front of neighbors and kids... don't
have any kids, but live in a VERY VERY conservative italian town and the people i rent from live downstairs from me, so having a BDSM lifestyle at home right now is not possible |
| canaan> | i think it ia given |
| Ash & maya> | do you scream too loud? :-) |
| canaan> | oopss sorry...i'll try that again |
| fyre of Sh> | i do *blush* |
| jen~**~Net> | there are many ways of showing your love towards your Master, just like it's done towards a husband...but well, don't laugh at me, but our lifestyle brings out a bit more 'nosier' things, so how is that dealt with? LOL |
| goddess~~n> | unfortunately, i am a screamer LOL |
| Ash & maya> | well - a gag might help ;-) |
| snow@}---R> | vanillas are screamers also.... |
| fyre of Sh> | scream into a pillow that helps |
| jen~**~Net> | LOL |
| goddess~~n> | but do try to subdue myself when in the throwes of passion LOL |
| canaan> | i think it is a given that adjustments or considerations have to be made in a 24/7 relationship |
| snow@}---R> | there are gags... |
| fyre of Sh> | but goddess that distracts |
| Kulo> | lol snow |
| Scorpion~~> | I was thinking gags too ;) |
| WillowKnig> | exactly canaan thats the way i feel as well |
| Lochinvar> | if you do not do it in public,it is no longer 24/7 |
| ladyshel> | but what hides the sound of a strap LOL |
| snow@}---R> | Rojo and i have been living the livestyle in front of my kids for months now... |
| jen~**~Net> | LOL...i was just going to ask that, ladyshel |
| snow@}---R> | that is a problem, shel... |
| ladyshel> | or do they sell silencers.. i dont know about <G> |
| misstee*Ma> | then Lochinvar, vanilla isn't done in public either, so then is it not 24/7 either? |
| fyre of Sh> | it is possible to live it in front of kids |
| snow@}---R> | my son heard Master spanking me... he knew what was going on... |
| Ash & maya> | so you cartry it into your job and your sub's job Lochinvar? |
| ladyshel> | how old is son?? |
| Kulo> | how did he react snow? |
| canaan> | i could not carry on a "true" 24/7 public relationship due to career and family considerations...it would be totally unrealistic to entertain this notion for me |
| jen~**~Net> | fyre, i would think so, i mean, you can kneel before your Master in front of your kids without them thinking anything, right? |
| snow@}---R> | mine is 12, shel... and very smart... |
| fyre of Sh> | yes..... just another type of cuddling |
| jen~**~Net> | and you can show him affection |
| ladyshel> | lol i have an 11 year old girl.. :) |
| snow@}---R> | he didn;t do anything, Kulo... he just said later that he knew what was going on... |
| WillowKnig> | jen has the idea here perfectly |
| Lochinvar> | misstee it was never ever said that a vanilla 24/7 I have never heard of |
| snow@}---R> | i never kneel... not part of our relationship... |
| fyre of Sh> | and i can whisper "Master" to him |
| Oracle{ħed> | My friends have so far managed, to let 3 friends now when a loft opens in their building, so are getting bdsm neighbors, but those who are not bdsm have just been plain told "this is who and what we are, you are welcome to come to one of our parties to learn and ask questions anytime" |
| jen~**~Net> | but if it was, you could still do it |
| Ash & maya> | I know some couples who live a 24/ BDSM relationship and they have kids - but they hide it from their kids and family and agreed on some secret signals |
| goddess~~n> | that might be the way to life the lifestyle 24/7... i am not sure |
| Oracle{ħed> | So long as you are haqppy and proud of what you have, and of course so long as you take in consideration changes for the sake of the kids bdsm can work 24/7 |
| bluemyst> | yes i keep it from my son. he is 13. |
| canaan> | i think its up to the individuals involved..and what they truly want...each couple is going to have different limits |
| fyre of Sh> | but what about when the kids have questions? |
| ladyshel> | secret signals .. would make it even more... sensual.. the... aspect of when He gets you alone... et.... |
| bluemyst> | yes i like the idea of secret signals. *smile* |
| jen~**~Net> | see, my daughters are 7 and 5...i'm very open with them, but i don't know if i'm ready to be answering any questions they might have about this |
| canaan> | exactly...that is what i would think ladyshel |
| Ash & maya> | I think a 24/7 can not be lived like some people imagine - except you are willing to ignore all social consequences - but a 24/7 can be lived with some modifications from the "imagination" |
| snow@}---R> | face it.... there are no hard fast rules.... it will be different for everyone.. |
| fyre of Sh> | same ages as my boys jen |
| canaan> | exactly snow |
| ladyshel> | exactly snow... |
| goddess~~n> | yes... different strokes for different folks? |
| ladyshel> | lol canaan |
| canaan> | lol ladyshel |
| Oracle{ħed> | How many ppl here have even told the closer adults in their family? |
| fyre of Sh> | true snow |
| jen~**~Net> | i told my brother a couple of months ago |
| WillowKnig> | my sister and brother in law know all about it |
| snow@}---R> | i have told my daughters, ages 29 and 19... |
| bluemyst> | not this girl *smile* i might have a custody battle on my hands. |
| fyre of Sh> | i have discussed it with friends |
| goddess~~n> | what was his reaction jen? |
| Oracle{ħed> | It was just this past summer when I told my father |
| jen~**~Net> | after i told him, i sent him to look at my homepage, he refused told me that he didn't want to know but yet, he always asks how Net is |
| bluemyst> | remember the couple in New York their kids were yanked away by social services..they have just now gotten them back. |
| Oracle{ħed> | My dad just said "REALLY?" |
| ladyshel> | soft smile. hmmmmm some mates dont understand.... desires....... let alone.. strangers or friends... |
| canaan> | i have told no one |
| fyre of Sh> | the having to hide makes the shopping trips more fun though :) |
| Ash & maya> | BDSM is still looked at as a kind of "rude perversion" - and people who hear you are into BDSM look at you as a paranoid monster |
| jen~**~Net> | lol fyre |
| goddess~~n> | or you are a sex maniac |
| canaan> | exactly Ash, Sir....and i also enjoy the aspect of having a somewhat secret life |
| ladyshel> | <---- perverted??? |
| fyre of Sh> | i always explain the respect aspect and it helps soften the blows |
| lil wolf..> | I have told some friends and my parents.... |
| Oracle{ħed> | Then he was very cool and just said "not my cup of tea but different strokes for different folks" |
| fyre of Sh> | i have even pointed out to friends that they are...... but they are not ready to see it yet |
| bluemyst> | thats good Oracle that he is understanding. |
| Ash & maya> | these are the 2 ways people usually react on your "outing" |
| canaan> | i find that when i broach the subject with vanilla male friends, i open myself up to all kinds of abuse...so i don't go there anymore |
| Scorpion~~> | I haven't told anyone in my family because ti really hasn't come up. I don't think they would react to necessarily. But hinting to associates has gotten me a few looks. <chuckle> |
| Oracle{ħed> | and how did your parents take it lil wolf? |
| goddess~~n> | some of my friends did not understand... and they dropped me like a hot potato |
| WillowKnig> | i will tell you i belong to a group in Atlanta and we hold many functions to raise money for the community and always invlove them in our funtions ..yes we get alot of looks but after they get to know who we are they are more comfortable with it..we have a person in our group that is on the city council |
| Lochinvar> | I have told my oldest son. |
| goddess~~n> | two of the men that i work with are into the lifestyle, but i am not sure if they really are, or were saying it just to get closer to me |
| lil wolf..> | They were curious about it asked questions But never told me that i was sick.... |
| canaan> | even my close girlfriends are very dicey to deal with...i take it real slow...if at all |
| Oracle{ħed> | then are they true freinds goddess if they would do that? |
| ladyshel> | as politics and religion....its not an easy.. subject to approach.... |
| jen~**~Net> | does it bother you all that not everyone has accepted your news? |
| goddess~~n> | i have hinted around to two of my closest friends... they have seen the books... |
| bluemyst> | also professionally it can affect me... |
| goddess~~n> | no... those people were not true friends... hence why i came here in the first place |
| snow@}---R> | i have told some friends... everyone of them took it very well.... |
| goddess~~n> | to learn more, to meet people who are into this lifestyle |
| Ash & maya> | the point is that most people do not know how to deal with people in our lifestyle - like most have problems to deal with gays or lesbs |
| canaan> | what i do is accept that some of my true friends..and yes they are true friends...are not into this and i cannot break my friendship because of that |
| bluemyst> | very true Ash. |
| fyre of Sh> | professionally... i enjoy having this as a secret...... sitting at a meeting thinking "if you only knew" |
| goddess~~n> | true... they have been accepted by society, but it took them a very long time to reach that point |
| *sun~~Cimm> | They do not understand it, so they fear it. |
| ladyshel> | smles at fryre :) |
| jen~**~Net> | lol fyre, i've done that |
| Oracle{ħed> | I tink once again it all comes down to educating those who do not know or understand the lifestyle. It takes alot of patience on your part but is very worth it. |
| Ash & maya> | that brings us back to the point - how far can the control of a Dom/me in a 24/7 go - to the job, family, friends or only private life? |
| goddess~~n> | one of the men that knows i'm into this will give me looks like
"i know what you are into, and it's sexy" i think only the private life... |
| *sun~~Cimm> | It would have to be only the private life. |
| goddess~~n> | job, family & friends may shun you |
| fyre of Sh> | Ash... that depends on each individual involved and their circumstances |
| canaan> | i think it depends on you life and what it contains and how you choose to work with those limits |
| bluemyst> | but there are things which aren't obvious which are available in public..that are fun |
| snow@}---R> | me too, frye.... sitting dressed very prfessionally, with no underwear on... or with a butt plug... per Master's instructions... |
| goddess~~n> | at this point, it would be my private life |
| fyre of Sh> | yes snow *grin* |
| Oracle{ħed> | Would depend also on what level the couple likes to live at for their own enjoyment Ash |
| jen~**~Net> | depends on how the Dom/me approaches it, i mean, He/She can tell you what to wear, but they can't tell you that you can't go to a meeting |
| Ash & maya> | that's a good point, Oracle |
| *sun~~Cimm> | been there and done that many times, snow <grin> |
| goddess~~n> | true... but then again, how do they know if you are following instructions? |
| WillowKnig> | ask onixia she will tell you she takes it to work with her..smiles |
| jen~**~Net> | trust and respect, goddess |
| canaan> | my job is very demanding and stressful and i could not tolerate any interference except maybe in secret ways...such as dress |
| snow@}---R> | they don't need to know, goddess... |
| fyre of Sh> | so it has to be worked out between the two involved... just as preferences are |
| Oracle{ħed> | You couldnt realistically live 24/7 the gorean way it just wouldnt be possible. |
| Ash & maya> | so the imagination of a 24/ and the reality are very different |
| bluemyst> | yes very different indeed. |
| ladyshel> | Is it worth the RISK... do as you both wish... and you TWO know the consequences.. and the BedRoom door shuts :) |
| goddess~~n> | so, that means that trust comes into play a lot in this lifestyle, right? |
| *sun~~Cimm> | indeed, Ash. |
| Lochinvar> | Absolutely Ash |
| *sun~~Cimm> | This lifestyle is nothing but trust |
| snow@}---R> | just because you live 24/7 doesn't mean the world has to know about it... |
| jen~**~Net> | most definitely, goddess |
| onixia~Wil> | what do I take to work Master? |
| goddess~~n> | i am definitely learning A LOT here... |
| WillowKnig> | i agree with snow |
| canaan> | and even if you wanted the world to know snow, i think the reality is hard to live with..the reaction from others, i mean |
| ladyshel> | kids are smart. and when they are of age.,.... will they.. bribe you with LET me GO mom.. OR ill.. do this and tell that.. etc.... Teens can be most.. manipulating.... |
| bluemyst> | i think that is part of the fun of going to parties...there you can dress in fetish and be as you wish...alot of freedom |
| snow@}---R> | very true, canaan... |
| WillowKnig> | onixia do you take this lifestlye to work with you at times?? |
| onixia~Wil> | I agree canaan and snow |
| Ash & maya> | I wanted to open this discussion with a text about living a 24/7 - this text decribed how to live a 24/7 - a cute imagination - but hardly to be realised in r/l - the author was definately only a "player" |
| onixia~Wil> | Yes Master I have |
| Oracle{ħed> | I think it also depends on where you live, on the general type of community you live in. |
| goddess~~n> | well... this would not fly in the community i live in... too damn conservative |
| onixia~Wil> | I live surrounded by strict conservative Catholics...who would shun me if they knew about my living the lifestyle |
| Ash & maya> | that means - even someone into the BDSM lifestyle has to obey the "classic" social rules |
| snow@}---R> | even if you live in a large city with a bdsm community... your neighbors and business associates are going to be vanilla in most cases... |
| bluemyst> | an example when my Master and i were at a restaurant..we were waiting for a table he put my hands behind my back and held them...no one knew what was going on except us. |
| goddess~~n> | i am a single jewish female living in a conservative italian town... |
| jen~**~Net> | society doesn't rule how i live |
| *sun~~Cimm> | so do i onixia, but i still have that "secret" part of me that puts an extra sparkle in my eye that others around me do not have. |
| canaan> | ironically, participating in this lifestyle has helped me become more feminine and polite...it shows more at work |
| bluemyst> | yes canaan, that is fun |
| Oracle{ħed> | Yes goddess I agree it wouldnt fly to well in that area *soft smile* |
| snow@}---R> | do vanillas life their "lifestyle" in public... no...
neither do gays or anyone else... we are no different... what we do in private stays in private.... |
| goddess~~n> | i would be looked upon as a heretic... |
| jen~**~Net> | Oracle, you let where you live dictate to you, Sir? |
| Ash & maya> | well snwo - you can kiss someone in public - but definately not
spank :-) you can - but you should do that "secretly" :-) |
| snow@}---R> | that is what i am talking about, Ash... |
| fyre of Sh> | well Ash Sir... playful swats are ok... a gentle reminder |
| snow@}---R> | all lifestyles kiss.... not all spank... |
| goddess~~n> | wouldn't some people think of the spanking aspects as abuse? |
| bluemyst> | i like those light taps to the butt in public..just a reminder so to speak. |
| Oracle{ħed> | no jen I dont, but it can influence the level to wich I behave in public just like on my regular behavior |
| jen~**~Net> | if done publically, it can be just love taps, goddess |
| snow@}---R> | me too, bluemyst.... |
| onixia~Wil> | true....if I were to be punished my my Master in public...he would most likely be arrested for assaulting me |
| Ash & maya> | yes - but you "tap" - your partner knows what it means - other people look at it as a sexy tap on the butt |
| goddess~~n> | :-) |
| jen~**~Net> | exactly, Ash |
| bluemyst> | but there are other ways to punish onixia.. |
| onixia~Wil> | by well meaning observers who think they would be helping me |
| canaan> | also this lifestyle provides me with permission to be submissive...instead of being manipulated and abused by vanilla males |
| fyre of Sh> | and there are other similar things that can be done |
| Oracle{ħed> | and you can give them a tap and whisper in their ear "you are going to get it at home you know" |
| jen~**~Net> | lol |
| onixia~Wil> | yes...and I have already discovered them from my Master blue |
| fyre of Sh> | mmmmm yesssss |
| Ash & maya> | it would be great if we had someone here from japan - cause he/she would tell us something about social rules concerning vanilla sex (kisses) in public |
| ladyshel> | whispers can be more effected.... |
| Ash & maya> | it depends on the social environment |
| fyre of Sh> | or a simple stern look |
| jen~**~Net> | whispers are VERY effective, trust me (giggling) |
| goddess~~n> | *smile* |
| canaan> | whispering is good <smile> |
| fyre of Sh> | passing notes across the table at dinner *grin* |
| snow@}---R> | my Master has made me take off my bra and panties in Dairy Queen... |
| Ash & maya> | someone told me - and I practise that myself - a stern look in public makes sure she understands what will come later ;-) |
| snow@}---R> | but he had a view where he could see if anyone was coming or looking... |
| Ash & maya> | who said punishment must happen immedeatly? |
| Oracle{ħed> | oh snow that sounds very nice *grin* |
| fyre of Sh> | the suspense can add to it |
| canaan> | hmmm...sounds fun snow *s* |
| goddess~~n> | definitely... the suspense does add to the excitement |
| onixia~Wil> | thats right Ash Sir...the waiting and anticipation can make it even more exciting |
| snow@}---R> | Oracle... it was fun... but don't tell him i said tha... hehehe |
| Oracle{ħed> | The knowing you are going to be punished and having to wait for it can be a part of the punishment itself. |
| fyre of Sh> | snow or in a fancy restaraunt... and He makes you hand the panties OVER the table |
| Oracle{ħed> | lol snow |
| jen~**~Net> | (giggling at Ash) i've seen that stern look in rt! |
| snow@}---R> | been there also, frye.... lol |
| Ash & maya> | so you can add this "hiding and secret signals" to your life and relationship |
| onixia~Wil> | Oh I would die of embarrassment if that happened to me |
| Ash & maya> | LOL jen |
| fyre of Sh> | no onixia... it is invigorating |
| canaan> | onixia...it would be fun! |
| snow@}---R> | he was playing with me under the table with a big family group at the next table... soooo very hard not to moan... |
| fyre of Sh> | or squirm |
| goddess~~n> | an exboyfriend once brought me to orgasm in a restaurant... it was so scary because i could not scream or do anything... had to sit there and just look into his eyes |
| canaan> | getting them off is a bit of a problem though |
| onixia~Wil> | with my luck my priest would be sitting at the next table |
| Oracle{ħed> | it also comes down to your perception and your mood at the individual time onixia, like in all things. *smile* |
| bluemyst> | ooh goddess. that sounds like fun :) |
| Ash & maya> | another question: |
| canaan> | lol onixia...oh god!..no pun |
| goddess~~n> | believe me... it was torture!!! |
| snow@}---R> | onixia... does you priest watch every move and facial expression to see iif he can guess what you are doing... |
| goddess~~n> | i wanted so much to sit on his lap and get him off... he would not allow me to do that |
| snow@}---R> | not likely... |
| Ash & maya> | assumed you live a 24/7 - and you don't feel good or not healthy - how do you act this day - Dom/me'S and sub's view |
| goddess~~n> | i could not touch him... but he could touch me all he wanted |
| Kulo> | I always want to do that goddess but never had the chance |
| onixia~Wil> | giggles...no snow. |
| bluemyst> | well, when i'm sick i'm a baby. *shy smile* |
| jen~**~Net> | ohhhhhhh, i ran into that little problem with Net while on vacation with him, Ash |
| fyre of Sh> | i would still try to serve, but would hope for some understanding |
| bluemyst> | so i like to be pampered. |
| snow@}---R> | just like any other relationship, Ash... ppl get sick, or have a bad day, etc... |
| onixia~Wil> | Okay...and what about certain major events in ones life...the birth of your children...the wedding day..etc |
| snow@}---R> | even tho we are bdsm, we are still human... |
| goddess~~n> | believe me .... it was one of the best aspects of the relationship *s* |
| canaan> | i would like to think that all of these relationships have compassion involved |
| jen~**~Net> | it does, canaan perhaps more so |
| snow@}---R> | dittol, canaan... |
| fyre of Sh> | if He were sick.... i would try to pamper Him |
| onixia~Wil> | I know I will be far from submissive when going into labour |
| snow@}---R> | lol, onixia... |
| jen~**~Net> | lol onixia, you got that right |
| bluemyst> | are you expecting onixia? |
| Oracle{ħed> | lol onixia |
| canaan> | time for a little role switching during labour, onixia *s* |
| bluemyst> | lol |
| onixia~Wil> | no not expecting...merely bringing in some aspects that can happen in living a 24/7 life |
| goddess~~n> | LOL... that's for sure onixia! |
| jen~**~Net> | but again, there are other ways to be submissive when others around |
| Oracle{ħed> | This actually was actually talked about alot last night |
| fyre of Sh> | lol canaan |
| WillowKnig> | Oracle thats strange it ws discussed here as well |
| jen~**~Net> | we're sub, not voiceless and if not feeling well, tell your Master, etc. |
| Oracle{ħed> | ANd this was talked about by ppl who are living 24/7, it was about the compromises you have to have, but it was also about the excitement it brings |
| fyre of Sh> | true jen |
| jen~**~Net> | you'll get it when you are feeling better, but hey, that's fun, right? LOL |
| fyre of Sh> | a sub owes his/her Dom/me that honesty |
| snow@}---R> | it does bring excitement... i never know when Master will lift my skirt on an escalator or parking lot.... |
| bluemyst> | oh yes i love that snow *smile* |
| sandra*STI> | *quietly moving in and settling down in chair to catch up* |
| goddess~~n> | i must say that the sensuality of this lifestyle is what attracts me the most... not knowing what the male will do at any given time |
| Oracle{ħed> | hello sandra *smile* |
| Landmark> | and yet the same people who call you sick and perverted, go home and slap their spouse around to abuse them. Yet you people are the ones that must justify your lifestyle.........sounds ass about face to me!! |
| snow@}---R> | mo too goddess |
| canaan> | yes goddess...a very attractive aspect |
| sandra*STI> | Hello Oracle, Sir *waving at everyone else* |
| Oracle{ħed> | Not just male goddess, there are those who are 24/7 and the female is Dom. |
| canaan> | exactly Landmark! the point i was making earlier. |
| ladyshel> | BDSM is not always exhibitonism.. just an aspect or limit... |
| goddess~~n> | i have always been a sensualist when it comes to
relationships... have not found the right man to explore with though i know that Oracle... but for me, the Dom would be male |
| snow@}---R> | very true, shel.... |
| canaan> | in part, what has brought me to this lifestyle, is frustrations with the paradoxical aspects of vanilla relationships....had enough of that. |
| bluemyst> | also, some wear different types of chains..to symbolize the collar in public.. |
| snow@}---R> | i do, bluemyst... i have many many collars... never without one... |
| onixia~Wil> | That was yesterdays topic...is the symbol of a collar necessary |
| snow@}---R> | some chains ... some beads... some leather... |
| fyre of Sh> | same here |
| Ash & maya> | many things of our lifestyle are symbolized in public - so we can live our lifestyle without telling people about it |
| snow@}---R> | some D/s couples do not use collars at all.... my Master likes it and so do i... |
| jen~**~Net> | i wear a collar-type piece everyday, even being married...my anklet that Net gave to me |
| canaan> | i would love to wear a collar in public most of my friends wouldn't know what it symbolized...it would provide me with a great deal of fun |
| onixia~Wil> | I have been wearing a small gold chain collar since last week. |
| jen~**~Net> | and when i'm with him rt, i'll wear my collar around my neck and there are many thin ones that are very sensual looking |
| Oracle{ħed> | On thursday I was at a fetish party and saw this amamzing
flogging. It was two men both dressed as women. They did each other as both are switches.
But the most amazing thing was how comfortable and great about it in a public scene that
takes time to get that way. THEN I founds out the wildest part is they are not the couple
I thought they were as in they are hetro, but they do work well together as Dom/sub
switch. Just goes to show that all this does depend on the individual relationship. |
| goddess~~n> | yes... |
| snow@}---R> | yes, Oracle... |
| goddess~~n> | one reason why i came to this confy is because i want to rediscover my feminine side... i am aggressive and assertive in real life, but have found that being aggressive and assertive turns men off... |
| canaan> | me too goddess...some aspects of your comments are the same for me |
| snow@}---R> | a lot of subs are smart, aggressive, professional women in real life... |
| Lochinvar> | goddess. I have found that to be true,with a lot of v/t subs. |
| goddess~~n> | i really want to find the feminine side again... |
| jen~**~Net> | being aggressive and assertive doesn't make you less submissive |
| sandra*STI> | nodding head here...it is nice when one must be in control so much, to be able to allow that control to be handed over to another |
| goddess~~n> | but i want so much to hand the control over to someone that i trust completely... have not found that yet |
| fyre of Sh> | yes sandra thatis one of the best things to me |
| bluemyst> | most submissives during the day are in positoins of power...which makes the ability to submit that much sweeter to me. |
| Oracle{ħed> | yes, jen is a very aggressive and assertive person, but I have seen her totally give up herself to a person and seen the levels she is capable of as a sub *kissing jen softly on the cheeck* |
| jen~**~Net> | and that's what this discussion is about...if you're a professional woman, can you really do that? |
| snow@}---R> | very ture, sandra... i had so much responsibility in my
career... now my Master has it... me too, bluemyst.... |
| fyre of Sh> | yes jen you can definitely |
| sandra*STI> | yes, allows for one to step out of the position of corporate control and so forth...and to release it and appreciate the contrast...for we are not one dimensional |
| jen~**~Net> | ohhhhhhh, Oracle, you're so sweet, Sir (returning a kiss to his cheek) |
| goddess~~n> | i try to give up a little bit of responsibility at the office every day... but every time i think that i have accomplished that, more power gets thrown my way |
| canaan> | i would like to think so, jen...what choice do you have...it's matter of mind |
| fyre of Sh> | i can dress as Master wishes...... and still implement policy at work |
| sandra*STI> | fyre...only if you Master is mindful of the harmony of dress and control at work... |
| Ash & maya> | and do you consider the wishes of your Master when you make business appointments? |
| fyre of Sh> | but i think it is critical for my Masterto know what my life is and is not |
| canaan> | in my profession, we are very aggressive, and unless i switch jobs, i cannot avoid that |
| fyre of Sh> | then He can make smart decisions yes Ash Sir i do |
| Oracle{ħed> | There is a professional Dome I know who never has sex of any kind with those she works with, all she does is the humilation and degradation parts of the edge play of bdsm. She told me her clients are judges, bankers and ceo type ppl, that abuse and control hundreds of ppl all the time, then come to her and submit |
| goddess~~n> | i work for a very conservative insurance company... think people would freak out if they ever knew that i was interested in this lifestyle |
| sandra*STI> | Ash - but, there is an interesting issue. A Master, just for the sake of control, should not demand that one do something that is harmful or contrary. |
| canaan> | but i can make certain accommodations for a Master and i think it depends on reality....i cannot give up my lively hood |
| Lochinvar> | canaan,that is why I still say a 24/7 v/t relationship is NOT possible. |
| snow@}---R> | part of my move to Master's house involves getting a new job.... He has a big part in saying what i am going to do... |
| jen~**~Net> | sorry, but i'm not so sure my Master would be on my mind when i'm working a business deal |
| bluemyst> | if a Master does so sandra..then he does not deserve to be called Master. |
| fyre of Sh> | nit v/t Lochinvar Sir... but r/t definitely |
| sandra*STI> | exactly bluemyst...and knowing that...a sub should be able to trust the wishes of the Master |
| bluemyst> | exactly..trust.. |
| goddess~~n> | if i was trying to resolve a difficult computer problem, the last thing on my mind would be what my master would think of me |
| canaan> | it depends on what a 24/7 relationships is to YOU, Lochinvar...if you are going by the book, i agree, but i think that is negotiated between individuals. |
| sandra*STI> | goddess, but, wouldn't you realise your Master would want you to succeed at your task...could you take your success and accomplishment home as you would in any relationship? |
| jen~**~Net> | are you all saying that you do think of your Master's wishes when working a business deal????? |
| Ash & maya> | lets say - I tell my sub to be at home at a specific time next day - and she suddenly has to make an appointment with a customer - shall she care for him or the business? |
| canaan> | and i am discussing rt relationships in all of my comments...not vt |
| fyre of Sh> | in all that i do, i ask myself "what would master think?" "would He like this?" and i strive to make him proud of me |
| goddess~~n> | no jen... not saying that.... |
| jen~**~Net> | Ash, i would call my Master and let him know what is going on |
| bluemyst> | the customer |
| goddess~~n> | my master's thoughts and wishes would be the last thing on my mind when i am at the office |
| snow@}---R> | once again.... everyone's situation is different... we do not all have the same career/job... we do not all have the same master... |
| jen~**~Net> | if my Master allows me to work, then that is what is important at that time |
| bluemyst> | so true snow :) |
| fyre of Sh> | very true snow |
| WillowKnig> | Ash you should understand that your sub has responsiblities as ell and be understanding as long as she does not make it a true habit |
| Oracle{ħed> | The business, as doesnt the income that person bring in have a impact and importance on the relationship and give you the freedom to do other things like buy some new toys? *grin* |
| fyre of Sh> | what if the situation were reversed Ash Sir? |
| sandra*STI> | <--- wants new toys |
| Lochinvar> | and all are not r/t snow,like you are. |
| canaan> | i think it would depend on whether you were living together or not as well. |
| Ash & maya> | I live a 24/7 and I think that I take good care of my girl - I just try to find out how other think about this question |
| bluemyst> | <--thinks maya is a lucky girl |
| goddess~~n> | <--- wants a new love |
| snow@}---R> | this is true, Lochinvar... but the topic is 24/7 not cyber.... |
| goddess~~n> | maya is a very lucky woman |
| canaan> | if i was not living with a Master, he cannot be responsible for my financial well being, paying bills, etc. |
| sandra*STI> | Ash - good question to raise...for, it did illustrate the diversity of people's thoughts, perceptions and circumstances...and that is something we should all be more cognizant of |
| canaan> | but...duh...we are talking about 24/7 here. |
| snow@}---R> | yes, canaan... |
| fyre of Sh> | my Master wants me to be successful and knows that sometimes short term sacrifices pay in long term divdends |
| snow@}---R> | even when i am 24/7... i don;t think Master will pay my bills or that i will turn over my paycheck to him... |
| Lochinvar> | I am not talking cyber. I am trying to point out the difficulties in a v/t 24/7 |
| snow@}---R> | althought some believe it should be done that way... |
| Ash & maya> | That's smart of him - but means he has to give up a part of His control |
| Oracle{ħed> | The reality of it though Ash is that for many of us depending on where we live and the jobs we have, it requirs two ppl working to pay the bills |
| jen~**~Net> | snow, i don't think i could, either |
| John~manda> | Yes..I would not wish my little one to miss an opportunity just to keep on a schedyle I made without knowing about the opportunity.. |
| goddess~~n> | is it right to first have v/t BDSM relationships, then take it real time? |
| Scorpion~~> | I believe any real Dom would be interested both in the business and personal well being of his sub, and business often takes priority would be my view at least until retirement. |
| sandra*STI> | goddess - that depends on the circumstances and the person... |
| canaan> | many of the books i am reading now concerning this lifestyle always bring up reality..and that it is a negotiable aspect to be discussed...no hard and fast rules. |
| fyre of Sh> | true canaan |
| sandra*STI> | agreeing with canaan |
| goddess~~n> | and what about contracts? are they still used? |
| bluemyst> | i was told when i first began in bdsm..that it is part of the Master's and subs responsibility that they enhance one another's lives...so this i believe involves all aspects of life. |
| Lochinvar> | I would think that if it went beyond a v/t relationship.Then and only then could 24/7 be discussed. |
| Ash & maya> | I heard many people talking about well being of the sub and that the Dom/me is responsible for that - how about the responsibility of the sub? |
| jen~**~Net> | it's wise to learn all you can, goddess...if it's cyber, than yes, and cyber is safer until you are ready to move on |
| fyre of Sh> | i think it is mutual |
| sandra*STI> | the sub is equally responsible for her well being |
| jen~**~Net> | 50/50 |
| bluemyst> | i believe it is the responsibility of the sub to enhance the life of the Master. |
| fyre of Sh> | the sub should assist in the Dom's well being as well |
| goddess~~n> | thanks jen... |
| snow@}---R> | <<-- wants no responsibilities... heheh |
| canaan> | i think life is complicated for most of us at the best of times...accepting that reality is part of the deal...and always being aware, that on top of that, the role of a good sub is to please her/his Master. |
| Oracle{ħed> | the responsibility of the sub, is to give as much as much of his/herself they can to create a strong relationship of love, trust and fun. |
| bluemyst> | true canaan |
| Ash & maya> | goddess: the contract topic is very interesting - we should keep it for another discussion evening if we find someone who will climb into the hotchair |
| goddess~~n> | so it's okay to have the fantasy first, then let reality set in? |
| sandra*STI> | bluemyst - give me your thoughts on this: is the enhancement of the Master's life actually an enhancement of her own? |
| snow@}---R> | well said, Oracle |
| fyre of Sh> | yes goddess |
| goddess~~n> | thank you Ash Sir... that is one aspect that i am most curious about |
| jen~**~Net> | yes goddess |
| Ash & maya> | good point, sandra |
| onixia~Wil> | Try that one on my Master WillowKnight Ash Sir |
| goddess~~n> | phew!!! |
| bluemyst> | yes, in giving we receive back much more *smile* |
| canaan> | yes, i would think so, sandra |
| onixia~Wil> | I will ask him if he would like to be in the hot seat for that topic |
| jen~**~Net> | sandra, if your Master is happy, aren't you happy? |
| goddess~~n> | ask who? |
| Ash & maya> | would be great onixia |
| Oracle{ħed> | Just as the care with which a Master takes care of his submissive does that not directly effect his own happiness and joy? |
| Lochinvar> | I agree Oracle |
| sandra*STI> | Thinking of own realtime situation where he is an entrepretneur, and that the sacrifices I make now, are for both of us later...yes, and his happiness is important, but, the long term goals can be tantamount to our motivations. |
| jen~**~Net> | it goes both ways, yes |
| bluemyst> | true sandra |
| Ash & maya> | We have a homepage where we list actual schedules and infos for
the conf - http://members.tripod.com/~SirAsh/BDSM.html suggestions for discussion are always welcome |
| Oracle{ħed> | My favorite line to ppl not understanding is this " A Dom wothout the gift of the willing submission of a sub is nothing other then a bully" meaning without the sub's there is no Dom and vice versa. |
| sandra*STI> | Can I make the assumption that since I was invited I am on the normal mailing list? |
| goddess~~n> | thank you sir... |
| Ash & maya> | no sandra |
| sandra*STI> | Ok...thanks...will send in a note |
| jen~**~Net> | and to add to Ash's post, what i have been sending you about the conference does not mean you are on the mailing list...i did that to help him out with addy's that i had already |
| Ash & maya> | some people where invited via powowow and some by the private mailing list of jen |
| sandra*STI> | thanks jen... |
| bluemyst> | Ash Sir, thanks for getting this going and you too jen. I'm glad we have a forum such as this. |
| goddess~~n> | jen, thanks sis for inviting me... it has been a real eye opener |
| jen~**~Net> | Ash and i are the only ones here today that have been in this conference for awhile now, and we are both wanting to turn this place into a regular meeting place |
| goddess~~n> | helps clear my head of the qeustions that have been burning inside of me |
| jen~**~Net> | no flying macros no unwanted pages |
| goddess~~n> | thank god ! LOL |
| bluemyst> | what a relief *sigh* |
| snow@}---R> | this has been soooooo good... this is what conf rooms should be for... |
| sandra*STI> | nice to be able to talk to other intelligent and thoughtful people about substantial issues...*smiling* |
| jen~**~Net> | and better yet, we're all serious in wanting more of our lifestyle |
| goddess~~n> | yes... i agree! |
| Lochinvar> | afk..for a moment |
| Ash & maya> | this place exists since beginning of the year and was always and should be a place for people serious about the BDSM lifestyle |
| canaan> | i really appreciate it as well...thank you for inviting me |
| jen~**~Net> | goddess, you ask very good questions, don't ever think they are stupid...we were all new to the lifestyle at one point or another |
| snow@}---R> | agreed, jen.... and wanted friends who understand our lifestyle... |
| Ash & maya> | the logfiles of the previous discussion can be found at the homepage |
| Oracle{ħed> | Only stupid question is the one you dont ask |
| goddess~~n> | thanks sis *hugs* |
| jen~**~Net> | and the one that may hurt you |
| goddess~~n> | i have downloaded some of those logs... they have been extremely helpful |
| bluemyst> | so true jen |
| Oracle{ħed> | *smiles at jen* smart lady there |
| Ash & maya> | I want to thank everyone for coming (or was that cuming :-) ) and participating in the todays discussion |
| goddess~~n> | thank you again for inviting me... i'm heading back to the other room now |
| jen~**~Net> | again, this conf is open 24/7 and not at all wanting just scheduled discussions in here...if you have a question, bring it up, it'll give us all something to talk about |
